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This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. Remember, this is just a theory. Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. Nov 26 . January 2022 Jason, MAZDA6 shuts down while driving fuel pump not monitored, may be no engine light etc. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. Would love your thoughts, please comment. This is the abridged version of my problem. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. Beyond that, its probably not a good idea even if it will allow lockup because that clutch surface area is limited. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing The TCM-2600/2650 is used to enable the use of the GM 6l50e, 6L80E, 6l90E, 6T70E and 6T75 E transmissions behind practically any engine. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. 4. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. But keeping the engine in its ideal RPM range allows the 10L80 transmission to operate with nearly the efficiency of a CVT transmission. $ 158.00 Select options. Shift the transmission to Drive. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? 1. Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. Wait 1 second. How quickly time passes by. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. That certainly holds true for the 6L80, 6L90. Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. For instance, transmission techs with any time under their belts can tell you all about 3-4 clutch failure in GM 4L60-Es, intermediate stub shaft failure in Ford 4R70Ws and solenoid issues in Aisin AW 55-50s. Respectfully, Len Gilbert Kitchener ON Canada. The ball bearing remained tight on the stator shaft support housing. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. And Sonnax doesnt even offer a forged clutch piston for the TMBX there just isnt any demand for one. The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. This is a normal and desired behavior. Renew Subscription The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. Eighth 0.85 I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. It does not have a direct 1:1 ratio like the 4L80E and 4L60E, which is worth noting. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. Its the best of both worlds. Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. yr=d.getFullYear(); In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. All Rights Reserved. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. Legal/Privacy. Cart The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. A second electric 10L80 pump maintains fluid pressure when the stop/start function activates. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! Put simply, its the converter. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Shift the transmission to Reverse. You know where this is going yup, its the converter. By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. The exceptions to this would be the 2006-2014 Corvette, 2006 G8, 2010-2015 Camaro, and the Chevrolet SS. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) Ninth 0.69 This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. Production Began 2017 Like most GM automatic transmissions, the easiest way to tell them apart is by using the pan gasket. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. The following drivability conditions will be present when this type of DTC is stored. Thought's? So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. Why is that? Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. The replacement solenoid band number must match the band number of the solenoid being replaced. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. Required fields are marked *. Pre-Owned. 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. Your email address will not be published. 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". Finally I am looking for a Chevrolet Caprice PPV to build into a fun road trip sedan for the family with either a LS3 or L92 engine block, stock LSA crank, rods, pistons, ARP hardware through out with CNC LS3/L92 heads and a pair of turbos with a goal of 750-950 horsepower at the wheels. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. Its like wheres Waldo. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. A horsepower revolution spawned by GM's increasingly powerful Gen. III+ V8 engines and their aggressive platforms such as the Cadillac STSV, XLRV, various trucks and SUV's and the venerable Corvette. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. Second 2.99 Find Dealer. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. Thank you. Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. In fact, the only 2017 model year vehicle that still comes with this transmission is the Chevrolet SS. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. ASK FOR CHAD - Freight Shipping - 90 Day Warranty. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Tenth 0.64 Will this hurt the trani? Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. Developed with upgraded internal components, Chevrolet Performance's SuperMatic 6L80-E 6-speed automatic transmission offers an exceptional torque rating of 650 lb.-ft. - a 45 percent increase over regular production versions of the 6-speed automatic. LT). Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. Autostart / Autostop function disabled (if equipped), Transmission Adaptive Pressure Control and adaptive shift values Frozen, High line pressure (harsh shifts and engagements). Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. It began replacing the 4L60E transmission in many vehicles starting in the 2006 model year. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. Essentially what TCI did was to engage the overdrive at the back of the trans to split the gear spread between the original First and Second gear ratios and again between Second and Third. vehicle weights. ! The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. August 8, 2022. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. The 6L80 was used in trucks, particularly in the GMT 900 platform. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? Indirectly affects shift control. Spin losses (i.e. Hi Jeff, It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. GM now also offers both 8- and 10-speed automatics. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. Applications. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. full. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . Sixth 1.28 The case is a cast aluminum alloy. The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). Do you think that I might pick up a few more hundredths if I switch the lock on say when I hit second? As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. Even though it has two more gears, creative packaging allows the 10L80 transmission to be no bigger or heavier than an 8L90 or 6L90. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules.