Echoes of simony as well as James 2:2-4, There are arguably relational dis-economies of scale in social structures. He added the promise of millions of dollars in renos and expansions, via the Closer Campaign, in order to sweeten the pot. Personally I do not want to create that kind of hardship for the surviving relatives of those who made my youth group experience a nightmare. I firmly believe we are experiencing another reformation. CJ Mahaney spread $$$ which brought him years of support from the Calvinista leaders.. So be careful, dont shoot before you think. Ken F (aka Tweed):if these offices are wrong it means the wheels fell of of the Church extremely early in its history. I share this for all who, like me, are overcome with new sadness, pain and loss amidst the HBC, Willow, Catholic church, ECFA, SBC, GFA, etc. How does he know that? Anonymity is not the same thing as cowardice, but thanks so much for playing that tired old game. I judge not those who remain I truly understand the depth of the manipulation but hope they do not fall victim to the crisis of faith and to the abyss that often follows when all youve built your faith on falls to ashes. I REMEMBER STORIES OF FREAKOUTS AND LONG-TERM TERROR REACTIONS FROM CHURCH SCREENINGS OF THIEF IN THE NIGHT WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM DOING THE SAME TO YOUNGER KIDS WITH PASSION OF THE CHRIST? Reported that Camp Harvest lost over $200,000 in 2016. Wow. But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD, I wait for God my Savior; my God will hear me. Micah 7:5-7, It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes. Psalm 118:9, Thus says the Lord: Cursed is the man who trusts in man Jeremiah 17:5. It seems to me that there is a serious idolatry issue at HBC. I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. And I doubt it was simply losing their job, as many of them voluntarily left. Finally, you deactivated your Twitter account a week ago. The word contains with it a reference to age. What is the source? How many disasters do we need to see before people ask legitimate questions? Lowlandseer: The elders [PRESBUTEROS] who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder [PRESBUTEROS] and a witness of the suffering of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed; shepherd [POIMEN] the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers [EPISKOPOS], not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly. (1 Peter 5:1-2). Sure, every community is going to have leaders with more social capital, but the level of deference given to pastors is completely unhealthy and all because a book kind of indicates that they need to be heeded or whatever. Giving is another way we worship Him and it allows us to demonstrate that He is more important to us than material things. But some dopes might not think they were so funny, eh?. Id call him a bottom feeder but I like lobster too much..So hes lower than that. No self-declared elders have authority over anyone who does not put their voluntary and continued trust in them. How you understand the word? God bless you. I, personally, do find truth to be something to rejoice in. TS00: I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. All this, with the goal of getting me, my family and the Executive Elders removed ," MacDonald wrote. In some cases these elders may be greater in years of living faithfully rather than simply age. God doesnt need Harvest and in fact Id be willing to say the spirit of Jezebel has been leading that place since the early 2000s. Locations in Dallas, Houston, Washington, DC, or 100% Online! For me I choose to pray and let God work, he never ceases to amaze especially when he answers prayer. this is because the powerbrokers have the mic. elastigirl: why does it matter what Paul thinks? (As well as send a message to any possible Dissidents.) How would church members do what you recommend? There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. Amen to all those who have written shame on you., roebuck: nobody goes there anymore its too crowded. Yogi Berra, Im surprised mega churches ever become crowded since You can observe a lot by just watching. -Yogi Berra. Thats really the point. Many parents contacted the school about it, and it was one of the first of many, many issues that arose there. I dont think so. The harm is already done. According to 1 Timothy 3:1-7 Jimmy & Gateway Sr Lead Pastor Robert Morris are two of only three Elders over Mark Driscolls church. MacDonald gave Mark Driscoll $50,000? Consider the listing of qualifications which Paul wrote to Titus and Titus: A BISHOP MUST BE Vincent: Satin has really pulled the wool over your eyes. Prayer and then in person, second after trying that, you are to take a witness in Christ / go with a brother in Christ to confront, then and only then you must take the church elders and confront your brother that he may turn and forsake his sins. I was a strong donor who loved the church and served in multiple areasI was in a good place spirituallybut I didnt meet the qualifications. GreekEpigraph: Thats why Im asking LLS (and Ken/Tweed, if he wants) how do these worship men, not God structures ever have any mechanisms at all to keep from going wildly off the rails? You have been on the pulse, on target, and on the money with each and every post I have read on Twitter and now on TWW. There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. Thats not the same as authoritarian of course but there are lots of verses warning against such behaviour and other selfish motives. I am of the Done tribe, but still begin each day committing to leaving the door to my heart ever so slightly ajar. At a lot of these churches, you try and start an unapproved Bible study on the side, theyll shut it down or insist on putting an approved church leader in control. Sadly, many have not served well. Vietnamese cuisine is good! Trust (Cambridge Dictionary): to believe that someone is good and honest and will not harm you, or that something is safe and reliable. to take stock in ones view, and have confidence in it, is personal responsibility. Acts 20:17, Paul called the elders. 1 Peter 5:1, Peter exhorted the elders. It is never one individual who rules over the church, but a group of people, the elders. He is faithful, gracious, merciful, kind and always desires and seeks out your best. While I am glad that he came here to confirm the authenticity of the letter, your attitude still shows that you have a long ways to go towards producing fruit that actually looks like repentance. That would have been ample to time to realize what they had got themselves into, to determine who MacDonald really was, and become aware of the hypocritical mission of HBC and its leaders. I too often look around at this world, and feel discouraged and useless to make any difference. Well, Im just a speck in the universe. MORE CONCERNING THE ELDERSHIP Because of pain. I know you really think more highly of me than you ought. Too much I and not enough we in there. . Shouldnt we trust our churchs leadership?, But as of this moment, the vast majority of James s closest friends and ministry leaders over the decades have said nothing publicly about these crises.. But they do eventually turn. Informacin detallada del sitio web y la empresa: cscdluquillo.com, +17878893488, +17875205223, +19547634027, +12012041300, +12012081024 Christian School and Chapel for the Deaf | Puerto Rico What in the world is running through his mind that he wouldnt want the truth shouted from the rooftops to those whod been under Macs influence far and wide? I wish that the decision to be a public figure in this scandal was left to the individual, not to third parties. Lowlandseer: The NT writers frequently warn that false teachers, wolves, charlatans will enter the church to lead people astray; others are already there and will eventually show their true colours. As usual, your comments and insight are on the money, Amy Moore. id say you are beholden to the public to explain to them with all transparency. God bless your father-in-law. so, if as Max says, if we do not get senile, or too bitter or cynical, our life experinces can at least put current disasters in perspective. No more baptism. 1 Peter 4:14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. Since beginning its training center, Harvest Bible Chapel has helped established over 193 church plants across the country and around the world. Forgive MacDonald if he genuinely repents? "And at the same time, I'm doing a show about humans who are flawed people," he says. Its actually pretty simple to pick out the false ones. It was given to the elders two months ago. Harvest Bible Chapel has owned its mistakes and endured to become a happier and healthier church, whose members recently pledged financially, in their walk/work for Christ, and in their. Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. No owner of a company will hire just anyone to oversee operations. David, this is something that I think needs much closer examination. They all rest on the character of the persons involved. elastigirl: why does it matter what Max thinks, I took your text out of context a bit, so forgive me. Oh no, we must look to whatever local shcmuck stands in our particular church pulpit and asserts that he speaks for God. What they all have in common is serving self interest, whereas the crux of the life and message of Jesus is that the way to life is to lay down self and serve others. The statements were given to Greg Bradshaw, who shared with only a few Elders. Lol. Any truth about MacDonald as a bad-boy preacher needs to be made public! I read that as a statement, not a post open for discussion, and an appeal to stop the speculation and kibitzing over a tragic situation. What will it take to make him accountable for at least the dollars, which should be somewhat trackable? Sure its likely that not everyone knew everything, but no one is telling all they know, and you can only suppose it has much to do with the filthy lucre they received from the till. I havent read the comments, and Im just going to say that seeing a dead bear there with James McDonald behind it made me sick. it must be protected. Just as I have loved you, so you must love one another. Having the equipment available to produce, record, and stream the services completely online, Harvest was able to continue to preach Gods Word unapologetically and worship unashamedly. I figure whenever Paul was speaking to us through Scripture, he was drawing from his personal knowledge of the Kingdom of God rather than what he thought about it. In the history of the church, which is most seductive:money, sex, or power? They all were making out pretty large with the tithes of people who thought they were giving to good causes. Our former pastor was not only being paid far more than the community and congregational average, we were always showering them with paid vacations, new clothing for the kids and cash gifts. Thats too deep to answer. Dallas Jenkins, the creator of the most successfully crowdfunded series of all time, "The Chosen," said he's setting the record straight for the last time on the matter of whether he believes Mormons are Christians. 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Crazy, huh? 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